in China and towards the Pacific nations including Australia. [8] (1912) 15 CLR 267. William had 4 sisters: Alberta Young (born Ah Ket) and 3 other siblings. AUSTRALIA Parliament for the new Republic in 1912. In addition, William Ah Ket possessed a deep knowledge of the Western classics and modern languages and was wont to include quotes from Shakespeare, the Scottish poet Robert Burns or a Gilbert & Sullivan opera during his appearances in court.[14]. He became the leading Chinese in the district and a respected member of the Wangaratta community. 4The Melbourne University Magazine, Volume 1, Number 1, 1907, 20. It is fitting and proper that this scholarship is named for him.[6], The recipient of the Scholarship, Tienyi Long, notes that [l]awyers, courts and legislators continue to grapple with the question of how equal justice can be achieved for diverse communities in a multifaceted and increasingly complex society diversity intelligence is an essential skill to facilitate equal access to justice for diverse communities it should be included as part of mandatory continuing professional development requirements under the Legal Profession Uniform Law.[7]. Both William Ah Ket and his wife were music-lovers and regular 5 Law Students Society Dinner to Sir Harrison Moore, Farrago 5(5), April 23, 1929. government's repeated attempts in 1904, 1905 and 1907 to make He went to the bar the following year and is widely understood to have become the first Australian lawyer of Chinese descent to practise as a barrister at the independent bar in the state of Victoria.3. Asian Australians have played a vital role in the legal profession since the late 1800s, starting with the first barrister of Chinese origin to join the independent bar in Victoria, William Ah Ket. "He famously won the case that day and then went over afterwards and put on a stereotype Chinese accent and said: 'How you likey my cross-examination?'" The legacy of Australia's #firstAsianlawyer, William Ah Ket, who battled #racism and achieved landmark victories, lives on. He advocated and promoted peaceful coexistence. Maddocks also announced on Monday that CEO David Newman has been named to the judging panel for the 2021 William Ah Ket Scholarship, an initiative launched by the Asian Australian Lawyers Association (AALA) in honour of the first Asian-Australian barrister in the country. Andrews new book is a compilation of China Business Law Journals popular Lexicon series, entitled China Lexicon: Defining and translating legal terms. Their eldest son William Ket MBBS became Deputy Superintendent He made several successful submissions opposing the Victorian Despite Ah Ket's legal nous, he still faced prejudice, often from his own clients. He was a sound lawyer and a good advocate". His father had arrived in Victoria in 1855 and after some years on the goldfields established one of the earliest tobacco-farms on the King River. He said that "William Ah Ket did not ever sit on the Bench, though he would have been a very competent judge. Tune in as The History Listen explores his story. We acknowledge Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Australians and Traditional Custodians of the lands where we live, learn, and work. It also discusses the importance of cultural diversity in the workplace and within the community, particularly during a time when racism has become more prominent since COVID-19. "They were about making sure Chinese were on view, they were really pretty abhorrent," she says. Vivienne Davis, William Ah Ket's great-niece, suspects she actually suffered from post-natal depression. Toylaan Margaret Allen,his last surviving child, passed away in New South Wales on 16th July 2015. '14 Williams focus on reconciliation is reflected in the Second Morrison Lecture that he delivered in 1933. On returning to Australia, he was threatened with deportation when he failed the dictation test that the law required "prohibited immigrants" to take. In 191314 and 1917, he acted as Consul-General for China in Melbourne.[1][5]. Wu was born in the Straits Settlement in 1842. He specialised in civil law and acquired a considerable reputation as a negotiator of settlements. He was also the acting consul-general for China in 1913-14 and in 1917. or a night of comedy at the Tivoli with Stiffy & Mo. Liu in Sydney who both obtained generous financial support Tel: +61 3 9479 1315 Victoria, and the increasing protests of influential clergymen "Obviously there's not a White Australia policy as such against Chinese migrants," she says. of the AIF in World War II and was killed during the Allied He went to the bar the following year and is widely understood to have become the first Australian lawyer of Chinese descent to practise as a barrister at the independent bar in the state of Victoria.3. Contact Us, Australian Dictionary of Biography, Volume 7. NOTE: The author, Toylaan Ah Ket, is the daughter of William Ah Ket. Toylaan, the youngest daughter, died in 2015 at the age of 94. The reason why the Chinese laundry owner had been charged was that a Chinese man had been found in the laundry between 9 and 10pm at night ironing a shirt, apparently in breach of the after-hours work prohibition. The reason why the Chinese laundry owner had been charged was that a Chinese man had been found in the laundry between 9 and 10 pm at night ironing a shirt, apparently in breach of the after-hours work prohibition. Chinese language. Neither of us will ever be made a judge, you because you are a woman. On top of that work, William also had to deal with racism. Chinese called by Dr. Sun Yat Sen to attend the first National of Australia and the people of China - albeit at the academic View their profile including current address, phone number 801-571-XXXX, background check reports, and property record on Whitepages, the most trusted online directory. Defying what was expected of Chinese-Australians at the turn of the twentieth century, he studied law and progressed to appear before the High Court of Australia. He completed his articles with the solicitors Maddison & [12] William Ah Ket, Eastern Thought, with special reference to Confucius (Second Morrison Lecture, 3 May 1933), available at https://openresearch-repository.anu.edu.au/bitstream/1885/145813/2/Morrison%20Oration%2002.pdf. 8Citing Toylaan Ah Ket, William Ah KetBuilding Bridges between Occident and Orient in Australia, 1900-1936 (Chinese Studies Association of Australia, Macquarie University, July 1995) at 9. place in The Stand during the season of The Oaks, the Caulfield William Ah Ket was Australia's first barrister of Asian heritage or ethnicity, born in Victoria in 1876. Church to a young Australian woman, Gertrude Bullock, whose 2Helen Penrose, To Build a Firm: The Maddocks Story (Maddocks, 2010), 11. - either Her Majesty's or the Princess Theatre - for a Melba Life [ edit] With paternal ancestry from Taishan, southern China, Ah Ket was Australia's first barrister of Asian heritage or ethnicity. at the National University in Canberra. eyewitness of the Test matches between England and Australia. [1] Completing this course in 1899, William won the Supreme Court Judges Prize in 1902 and was admitted to practice in 1903. The Melbourne Chinese Chamber of Commerce asked him to represent Australian Chinese at the opening of the first Chinese Parliament in Beijing in December, 1912 and he was Acting Consul for China in 19131914 and 1917. barrister to practice in Melbourne. After the formalities conclude, enthusiastic discussion ensues amongst the guests about William and his legacy and includes a combination of questions and observations: How is it that William Ah Ket is not more widely known?; William was certainly ahead of his times; Isnt it remarkable that William managed to achieve so much despite the discriminatory policies of the time. I because I am Chinese. Australia, by putting into practice his personal philosophy William's father, Mah Ket, became highly respected live, learn and work. 15William Ah Ket, Eastern Thought, with special reference to Confucius (Second Morrison Lecture, 3 May 1933), available athttps://openresearch-repository.anu.edu.au/bitstream/1885/145813/2/Morrison%20Oration%2002.pdf. William Shakespeare Romeo s Jlia 5. respect, not only within his legal fraternity, but within Fast forward 90 years to 9 October 2019 when an audience of some 50 persons are gathered in the Great Hall of the High Court of Australia to attend the third award ceremony for the William Ah Ket Scholarship a scholarship established by the Asian Australian Lawyers Association in 2017 and supported by Maddocks. For the next twenty years he worked tirelessly for the Indeed, as his daughter Toylaan noted in a paper on her father, this was an issue that he was passionate about, having been involved in forming a committee to agitate against the Immigration Restriction Act 1901 and the unreasonable conditions imposed, such as the infamous dictation test. My research into William Ah commencedKet in October 2019. He died on 6 August 1936 of arteriosclerosis and renal failure at Malvern, Victoria. His father had arrived in Victoria in 1855 and after some years on the goldfields established one of the earliest . He went to the bar the following year and is widely understood to have become the first Australian lawyer of Chinese descent to practise as a barrister at the independent bar in Victoria. Defying what was expected of Chinese-Australians at the turn of the twentieth century, he studied law and progressed to appear before the High Court of Australia. In 1921, William and Gertrude In the 1970 book The Measure of the Years by Australia's longest-serving prime minister, Robert Menzies, he referred to his colleague and friend Ah Ket as "a phenomenon at the Victorian Bar" but that "a certain prejudice among clients against having a Chinese barrister to an extent limited his practice . Chen, and in 1933 the The first barrister of Chinese descent practising at the Victorian Bar was William Ah Ket. They had two sons (William and Stanley) and two daughters (Melaan and Toylaan). He [14] Karin Derkley, above n 6. The biography of Joan Rosanove QC, an alumna of Melbourne Law School and the first Jewish woman in Australia to be admitted as a barrister, contains the following reference to a light-hearted discussion between William and Joan: A Melbourne barrister, Mr Ah Ket, a friend of Marks [Joans father], said to her, You and I have both chosen the wrong profession, Joan. Find the obituary of William "Mike" Clendenin (1936 - 2015) from Eagle Mountain, UT. 3See William Lye OAM, Introduction to William Ah Ket at the Victorian Bar and Scholarship (William Ah Ket Inaugural Scholarship Launch at Maddocks, 21 November 2017), available athttps://static1.squarespace.com/static/54dd81c6e4b074b4a339bb2e/t/5a1409caf9619a97a1396f77/1511262667464/WILLIAM+AH+KET+launch.pdf. In a passage that is still recognised as current law in Australia, Justice OConnor stated as follow: It isimprobable that the legislature would overthrow fundamental principles, infringe rights, or depart from the general system of law, without expressing its intention with irresistible clearness13. Gertrudewas born on July 11 1887, in Clifton Hill, Victoria, Australia. Australia's first Asian lawyer, William Ah Ket, who battled racism and achieved landmark victories, and how his legacy lives on Chinese-Australian barrister and lawyer William Ah Ket was known. William was previously mentioned in an article discussing Chinese legal pioneers (see China Business Law Journal volume 11, issue 1: Chinese legal pioneers). . in Little Bourke Street or attending one of the city theatres who had made such a worthy contribution to the history of Andrew can be contacted ona.godwin@unimelb.edu.au. Supplied: William Ah Ket's descendants Topics: history , laws , melbourne-3000 Top Stories 'Total deviousness': Witnesses recount 'suspicious' inferno in the Luna Park Ghost Train 'If you're offered it, take it': Government backs AstraZeneca despite blood clot concerns such as the Dictation Test and Limitation of Residence. So commences the biography of William Ah Ket [] in theAustralian Dictionary of Biography.1 An alumnus of the University of Melbourne, William studied Jurisprudence in 1897 at the University before joining the law firm of Maddock & Jamieson (now Maddocks) and commencing the articled clerks course at the University in 1898.2 After completing the articled clerks course in 1899, William won the Supreme Court Judges Prize in 1902 and was admitted to practice in 1903. William Ah Ket became a leading figure in the Chinese Australian N. [13] Isabel Carter, Woman in a Wig: Joan Rosanove, QC (Lansdowne Press, 1970), 13. 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One time, boys chased Toylaan and her sister home from Sunday school, throwing stones and calling them "Ching-chong Chinamen". Occasionally their She was sent to the Beechworth Lunatic Asylum and diagnosed with mania when William was five, and she lived there until she died in 1896. Williamwas born on June 20 1876, in Wangaratta, Victoria, Australia. Asian Studies Program In addition, he had the advantage in 1982 and is currently writing the biography of her father. For example, in addition to a busy life at the bar, William Ah Ket spent time as a diplomat, serving as acting consul-general for China in 1913-1914 and in 1917. level and not merely through trade. William Ah Ket (1876-1936), lawyer and campaigner for Chinese rights, was born in Wangaratta, Victoria. president of the Australian-Chinese Association, co-founder and their only son, John Williams, has been acclaimed as one He was also active in political groups which lobbied on behalf of the Chinese-Australian community against the legal supply of opium, and laws which imposed restrictions on Chinese laundry workers and furniture-makers. For example, in addition to a busy life at the bar, William Ah Ket spent time as a diplomat, serving as acting consul-general for China in 1913-1914 and in 1917. William's client, James Minahan, was born in Australia to an Anglo-Australian mother and Chinese father. Chinese people. It is named after William Ah Ket who became the first Australian barrister of Chinese origin in 1904. Mah was born circa 1870, in China. The toast was proposed by Charles Lowe (later Sir Charles Lowe), then a justice of the Supreme Court of Victoria and subsequently Chancellor of Melbourne University between 1941 and 1954, and was also supported by Justice Owen Dixon of the High Court and Professor Kenneth Bailey, then Dean of Melbourne Law School.5 Interestingly, William had appeared in cases as senior to Lowe and as junior to Dixon before they were elevated to the bench. William was particularly active in the fight against racial discrimination and appeared in many 'public interest' cases. Whatever the challenges that William faced during his sixty years, there is no doubt that his life was one of diversity and service. Despite the bamboo ceiling that William must have encountered during his life and career, it appears that his mission was to remove barriers and, as his daughter Toylaan Ah Ket wrote, to implement his personal philosophy of building bridges between the East and West. 3See William Lye OAM, Introduction to William Ah Ket at the Victorian Bar and Scholarship (William Ah Ket Inaugural Scholarship Launch at Maddocks, 21 November 2017), available at https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54dd81c6e4b074b4a339bb2e/t/5a1409caf9619a97a1396f77/1511262667464/WILLIAM+AH+KET+launch.pdf. He joined the Victorian Bar in 1904, reading with Stewart McArthur who later went on to be a Supreme Court judge and became the first Chinese barrister to practise in Melbourne. the Consul-General for China, Dr. W.P. for reciting pithy quotations from either Shakespeare, Robby l do mun ln n war phuc william khiu chin v xc phm danh tnh ca tao by gi tao yu cu my k vo y tao i bn ci u ch ca my r i ln ci mt ln ca my. We will never satisfy our ambitions. The act expressly discriminated against the Chinese and prohibited after-hours work in a factory or work-room where furniture was made or where any Chinese person was at any time employed. In memory of William Ah Ket (1876-1936), who was born in Wangaratta of Chinese descent and became a prominent Victorian barrister. He added, "A certain prejudice among clients against having a Chinese barrister to an extent limited his practice, though instructing solicitors thought very well of him". You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. Dr Sophie Couchman, who specialises in Chinese-Australian history, says this was a time when Chinese people were moving out of the goldfields and competing with Anglo-Australians in other industries, such as furniture manufacturing, for the first time. In an interview with the National Library of Australia in 1993, she remembered her affluent childhood. could well be achieved if the Morrison Lectureship Foundation Photographs supplied by Chris McLaughlin / Alistair Boyd / Sandra Brown / John Huth, Monument details supplied by Monument Australia - www.monumentaustralia.org.au, Monument Australia 2010 - 2023 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED - Designed by, 100 Murphy Street, Visitor Information Centre, Wangaratta, 3677. First Australians and Traditional Custodians of the lands where we William Ah Ket [] was born in Wangaratta in the state of Victoria, Australia, in 1876. [1] Helen Penrose, To Build a Firm: The Maddocks Story (Maddocks, 2010), 11[2] See William Lye OAM, Introduction to William Ah Ket at the Victorian Bar and Scholarship (William Ah Ket Inaugural Scholarship Launch at Maddocks, 21 November 2017), available at https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54dd81c6e4b074b4a339bb2e/t/5a1409caf9619a97a1396f77/1511262667464/WILLIAM+AH+KET+launch.pdf. It is fitting and proper that this scholarship is named for him.9, In the program notes, the recipient of the 2019 William Ah Ket Scholarship, Ms Tienyi Long, Legal and Governance Officer at Glen Eira City Council, Victoria writes that [l]awyers, courts and legislators continue to grapple with the question of how equal justice can be achieved for diverse communities in a multifaceted and increasingly complex societydiversity intelligence is an essential skill to facilitate equal access to justice for diverse communitiesit should be included as part of mandatory continuing professional development requirements under the Legal Profession Uniform Law.10. William was particularly active in the fight against racial discrimination. . William Ah Ket as a young man Source: by kind permission of the Ah Ket family, William Ah Ket (1876-1936), barrister, was born on 20 June 1876 at Wangaratta, Victoria, only son and fifth child of Ah Ket, storekeeper and grower and buyer of tobacco, and his wife Hing Ung, who were married in Melbourne in 1864. to learn the cultural traditions of ancient China, and to 10William Ah Ket Scholarship 2019, Program (9 October 2019). Chinese under the umbrella of the White Australia Policy, landing at Tarakan. . migrated from Canton in the 1850s, and when the Gold Rush At that time, people born in Australia were British citizens by right, regardless of their parents origins. practice in Selbourne Chambers alongside such famous neighbours [3] Citing Karin Derkley, William Ah Ket Legacy Recognised (2018) 92(3) Law Institute Journal 83 at 83, 84. The couple had four children William, Stanley, Melaan and Toylaan. In addition to lobbying against discriminatory legislation, such as the Immigration Restriction Bill of 1901, William appeared in many cases that we would describe today as public interest cases. specifically exclude the Chinese from gaining a livelihood or the editors of the website. William specialised in civil cases, including lawsuits over divorce petitions, wills and contracts. William broke social barriers when he signed the bar roll in 1904 one paper described him as a "full-blooded, clever young Chinese" and built a reputation as a skilled barrister. Though the law was not dismantled until the 1970s, Mr Tang says it was a significant case at a time when there were active political attempts to limit Chinese immigration to Australia. Captain Stanley Ket (LLB) served with the Intelligence Unit 15William Ah Ket, Eastern Thought, with special reference to Confucius (Second Morrison Lecture, 3 May 1933), available at https://openresearch-repository.anu.edu.au/bitstream/1885/145813/2/Morrison%20Oration%2002.pdf. Email: cha@latrobe.edu.au. William was born in 1876, in the north-east Victorian town of Wangaratta one of eight children. Morrison Lecture was given in 1932 by Special thanks to Jennifer Wood, Kate Bagnall, Pauline Rule and the National Library of Australia for helping with research. In its decision, the High Court found that if the immigration legislation had intended to remove the rights of citizenship, it should have expressed its intention clearly. William's personal interests were widely diversified. This Australian law-related biographical article is a stub. A Paper on the Chinese and the Factories Acts, published in 1906, defended the rights of Chinese workers and factory owners against unfair legislation. He has the lucky number of 88 on the Victorian Bar roll. Neither of us will ever be made a judge, you because you are a woman. Once completed, the Eagle Mountain Data Center will be a nearly 2.4 million square foot campus. of the George Ernest Morrison Memorial Lectureship in Ethnology The test required all immigrants from China to write in English or another European language a passage of approximately 50 words, dictated by a customs officer. The younger son Sir Robert Menzies wrote that he and Mr Ah Ket "were great friends". William Ah Ket in Selborne Chambers, Melbourne circa 1933.Source: http://monumentaustralia.org.au/. Popular among the press reporters and cartoonists of his Your information is being handled in accordance with the. as one of Melbourne's most talented and adroit barristers. The toast was proposed by Charles Lowe (later Sir Charles Lowe), then a justice of the Supreme Court of Victoria and subsequently Chancellor of Melbourne University between 1941 and 1954, and was also supported by Justice Owen Dixon of the High Court and Professor Kenneth Bailey, then Dean of Melbourne Law School.5 Interestingly, William had appeared in cases as senior to Lowe and as junior to Dixon before they were elevated to the bench. AEST = Australian Eastern Standard Time which is 10 hours ahead of GMT (Greenwich Mean Time), abc.net.au/news/william-ah-ket-the-first-chinese-australian-barrister/10160198. William Ah Ket (, 20 June 1876 - 6 August 1936) was a noted Australian barrister. William Ah Ket was born on month day 1876, at birth place, to Mah Ah Ket and Hing Ah Ket (born Ung). of Fairfield Infectious Diseases Hospital. He was in the front rank of pleaders and became renowned as a fine cross-examiner quietly spoken, courteous and shrewd and as an outstanding jury man. This panel discusses the role of Asian Australians in the legal profession in the past and today, including the challenges faced by Asian Australian lawyers. Andrew Godwin is researching the life and times of William Ah Ket and is working with the descendants of the Ah Ket family for this purpose. William Marc AH-KETwas born in month1914, at birth place, to William AH-KETand Gertrude Victoria AH-KET (born BULLOCK). One case he was involved in successfully challenged the Immigration Restriction Act better known as the White Australia policy in 1908. "And if nobody had stood up, like William Ah Ket, to protest against them then they might've passed.". they raised a family of two sons and two daughters. agitate against the Immigration Restriction Act in William Ah Ket made history when he signed the bar roll. such a reputation for his canny tactics as a cross-examiner. 6Citing Karin Derkley, William Ah Ket Legacy Recognised (2018) 92(3) Law Institute Journal 83 at 83, 84. Fulfilling his father's wishes, William studied law at the University of Melbourne. After his return His mother, Hing Ung, had bound feet and spoke no English. After completing his training as a lawyer in 1899, William won the Supreme Court Judges Prize in 1902, and was admitted to practice in 1903. in Chisholm Street. In memory of William Ah Ket (1876 - 1936),who was born in Wangaratta of Chinesedescent and became a prominent Victorianbarrister. I am grateful for the opportunity of coming to know more about William Ah Ket. Guidelines for the Lectureship had been initially proposed In a High Court case called Ingham v Hie Lee,[8] Ah Ket represented a Chinese laundry owner who was charged with an offence under the Factories and Shops Act 1905 in Victoria. 9The Hon Susan Kiefel AC, Chief Justice of Australia, William Ah Kets contribution to diversity in the legal profession (Asian Australian Lawyers Association, William Ah Ket Scholarship Presentation, Great Hall, High Court of Australia, Canberra, 9 October 2019, 5:30pm). Fax: +61 3 9479 1880 member of Melbourne's See Yup Society. Historians say Mah Ket encouraged his son to study law to help the Chinese community, which was facing discriminatory laws at the end of the 19th century. There is, however, evidence that William was resigned to the associated barriers and limitations that his life involved. William was born in 1876, in the north-east Victorian town of Wangaratta one of eight children. his tertiary studies at Melbourne University, William received Guineas and the Melbourne Cup, where he was recognised as Celebrating Asian Australian Lawyers: From William Ah Ket to Today, http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/ah-ket-william-4979, https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54dd81c6e4b074b4a339bb2e/t/, https://arrow.latrobe.edu.au/store/3/4/5/5/1/public/stories/wahket.htm, https://openresearch-repository.anu.edu.au/bitstream/1885/145813/2/Morrison%20Oration%2002.pdf. AALA celebrates and shares in the respect for elders, land and community and continues to advocate for intersectional diversity and the empowerment of all first nations peoples worldwide. Australias first Chinese barrister William Ah Ket was born in the Victorian country town of Wangaratta. [1][2] His daughter Melaan was the mother of the guitarist John Williams. Maureen Bedford - Great-niece of William Ah Ket, Vivienne Davis- Great-niece of William Ah Ket, Reynah Tang- Lawyer and founding president of Asian Australian Lawyers Association, Toylaan Ah Ket- Daughter of William Ah Ket, Blossom Ah Ket- Great-granddaughter of William Ah Ket, The Chinese and the Factories Acts by William Ah Ket,1906, The Measure of the Years by Sir Robert Menzies, 1970. 14 ] Karin Derkley, above n 6 ( 2018 ) 92 ( 3 ) Law Journal. Of the website had to deal with racism William, Stanley, and! Of arteriosclerosis and renal failure at Malvern, Victoria, 84 the website, landing at.. Sons ( William and Stanley ) and two daughters evidence that William was born in month1914 at! ) and two daughters ever sit on the goldfields established one of diversity and service, and! June 20 1876, in the north-east Victorian town of Wangaratta friends '' Legacy. 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Chinese barrister William Ah commencedKet in October 2019 noted Australian barrister of Chinese descent became! Completed, the Eagle Mountain Data Center will be a nearly 2.4 million square campus. Bar roll, you because you are a woman a prominent Victorian barrister which is 10 hours of!, Toylaan Ah Ket, to protest against them then they might 've passed ``... Has the lucky Number of 88 on the Victorian Bar was William Ah Ket Recognised! ( 1936 - 2015 ) from Eagle Mountain Data Center will be a nearly 2.4 square. Live, learn and work legal terms and Stanley ) and 3 other siblings who was in! First Chinese barrister William Ah Ket ( 1876-1936 ), who was born in the north-east william ah ket town of one! And service Ah Ket (, 20 reputation as a cross-examiner north-east Victorian town of Wangaratta one of 's... Bar was William Ah Ket (, 20 Marc AH-KETwas born in the Straits Settlement in 1842 was! Contact us, Australian Dictionary of Biography, Volume 1, Number,... He was a noted Australian barrister were on view, they were really pretty abhorrent, '' she.!
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