We recommend our users to update the browser. The solution begins with good flashing, as this should stop leaks from rainfall and might stop the leaks from ice dams, as well. This allows precipitation to naturally find its way to the gutters so the gutters can do their job. Make sure to seal the drop outlet to the gutter with seam sealer. Back to the house, and depending on the design of In today's roofing insight, Phillip Dalton explains how much overhang a roof needs at the gutter and what happens if you leave too much roofing material. % Attach any screws (you might have to drill them in) Snap the end of the guard over the gutter or screw it in. If this slight overhang is too short, water will drip behind the gutters, leading to rotted roof sheathing and fascia, stained siding, and even soil erosion and a flooded basement. I started HomeInspectionInsider.com to help people better understand the home inspection process and answer questions about homeownership and home maintenance. If you have water stains that extend across ceilings or run down walls, you probably also have a leaky roof. Ventilation to keep the fascia from rotting due to water trapped between the back of the gutter and the fascia would be my guess. Code requirements cited may have been changed in a newer code edition, or may not yet be adopted in your area. In today's roofing insight, Phillip Dalton explains how much overhang a roof needs at the gutter and what happens if you leave too much roofing material. Use a flat bar or putty knife to separate the sealant between the layers. Flashing will start from underneath the roof and bend down and The long shingles can wick moisture back up to the roof and lead to more damage. While not required by shingle manufacturers, it is one of the best things you can do to protect your sheathing, fascia, and siding from wood rot.". The drip edge works with the gutter to control the direction of the water and helps protect the building against any damage. Water does need to drain, of course, but a gutter installation like this is unattractive and unnecessary. Incorrect gutter placement can cause soil shifting around your house, insect infestations, and damage to the siding or foundation, and these issues are often expensive to fix. Home centers usually stock seam sealer near the gutter parts. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. However, even this may not completely solve the problem. Failing to install gutters properly can lead to costly problems. if the gutters were flush and as low as they are, heavy rain would shoot right over the trough. Depending on the slope of the roof, the water might cascade right over the gutter (but I'm no physics major, so I'm not sure how to calculate the path of falling water). The gutter should be 2 to 3 inches away from the roofs edge. . If a drip edge isnt there, the edge of the shingles should extend over the backside of the gutter by about an inch, so the water won't drip behind it and rot the fascia board. A downpipe is typically vertical and extends to ground level. Few homes can handle the appearance of anything larger than a 6 inch, commercial-sized gutter, so these wider rain gutters may not suit your home. This brand suggests nailing the gutter to the roof edge every 16-24, depending on local wind conditions. At one time, letting the water drain from one roof to another may have been an accepted practice. A diverter will help direct the water back into the gutter where it belongs. Is this problematic setup familiar to you? Most products refer to this property as self-leveling. And the runnier the better, so if you need to apply it on a cold day, keep the seam sealer somewhere warm so it stays fluid. Does With(NoLock) help with query performance? Sometimes you can spot this if you climb up into your attic on a cold night. My concern is that If it's a functional gap, then it's harmful to block it with whole fascia board). It is recommended to acquire the highest-potential durability material, even in lower-risk environments, to promote roofing longevity. If the run is long, you may need flashing to cover the exposed To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Home House & Components Parts of House Gutters. For this reason, the fascia board needs to be painted infrequently. In addition to these products, rain guards have been designed to fit inside the gutters edges to keep large debris out and allow water to drain continuously. So we want to make sure you know everything you need to know about your home gutter system and especially roof and gutter installation. Look for the following signs from the ground: Gutters don't have a tilt to ensure they drain towards the downspouts. The gutters are getting old and I want to replace all. If youre having trouble with your gutters or if youre ready for an upgrade to your home gutter system, having a basic understanding of how gutters should work can save you from these issues. In most cases, you can remove nails under the shingles on both sides of the vent to pull it free. Your gutters can have a much slighter drop from the center to each end. What is the difference between galvanized and galvalume metal roofing? It eliminates the need for the water to pass over your roof more than once. Is the gutter on the side of my roof dormer necessary? From a ladder or from the roof? Heres a great example of why information like this is so important. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. It would be good to finish your answer, or it may be deleted. The best fix, though, lies in cutting a new saw kerf into the mortar and install a fresh piece of flashing. In some modern houses in Sydney, overflow water found its way Often water runs to openings in the vapor barrier, such as at ceiling light fixtures. Shingle installation guides usually state that the shingles should extend no more than inch to inch beyond the drip edge of the roof flashing. Maybe you want to find an installer who will take the time to install your new gutters below the edge of the roof. In a hurry? You can fix small holes simply, but you shouldnt inject caulk into the hole. Why is there a gap between fascia and gutter? Theres a simple solution if you follow the GAF reports recommendation. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. If the homeowner had dealt with it right away, the damage and subsequent repairs would have been minimal. That can rot away or become torn, both of which allow water to work its way into the house along the pipe. What factors changed the Ukrainians' belief in the possibility of a full-scale invasion between Dec 2021 and Feb 2022? If you find yourself managing this unexpected issue with your home. Yes. Mar 4. Why Choose Copper Gutters for Your Florida Home? Since the gutters have to slope down towards the downspout, this distance will increase as you get closer to the downspout. Mx*6UmT5x. - Home Youll be in the neighborhood of the leak. No gap between fascia and drip edge. Water does need to drain, of course, but a gutter installation like this is unattractive and unnecessary. Doing this should cover the most leak-prone areas. When gutter sections are installed directly in line with your roof shingles, the shingles impair the natural flow of water. Why Is Rain Dripping Between Gutter and Fascia? No matter what kind of home you have, quality gutters make a difference. The soffit that meets the roof is one of the toughest areas to waterproof. Are you tired of removing your downspouts every time you mow? Manufacturers manuals can provide insights into the durability of these general products. If gutters are too far from the roof, rain may flow over walls and rot the facia. There are common misconceptions about how far off the roof a gutter should extend. Each short section of flashing channels water over the shingle downhill from it. In a hurry? Change color of a paragraph containing aligned equations. But dont worry; you can make your own from a box miter, and box miters are available in every gutter color made. For more information about guttering, or just about any other roofing issues, head to the Dalton Roofing blog https://dalton-roofing.com/news/ Don't forget to LIKE the video and SUBSCRIBE to our channel for more roofing tips, hints and insights.GET FREE ESTIMATES \u0026 ADVICE Call today 0114 2799799 info@dalton-roofing.co.uk Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. The 3" would be the distance measured from the drip edge (the point at which the water falls from the roof), to the top of the gutter. The water flows into the drip edge and eventually travels into the gutter. Let the hose run for several minutes in one area before moving it up the roof a little farther. It rolls out when it rains and then rolls back up when the water stops flowing. endobj Are Gutter Guards Worth It or a Waste of Money? Remove the wood blocks and put an 5 inch gutter it will compensate for the gap. Should rain gutters be installed behind metal drip edge? Any more and you run the risk of water running off the tile and overshooting the gutter. Gutters should extend past the roof to catch and drain water without splashing onto the roof or siding, especially in heavy rain. How far down should gutters be from shingles? A local gutter installation professional will assess your situation and suggest the best placement to drain rainwater. WebThe cost of extending my 30 foot long roof overhang 14 inches was $340 or $11.50 per running foot for materials. As gutter guard manufacturers at MasterShield, we want our product to become an extension of the roof. This is how far a gutter should extend past your roof edge, as well as other tips, to get the longest use out of your gutters. Even so, some installers dont take the time to install gutters low at the edge of the roof to prevent this issue. and end seams by 4 in. Depending on your soil, the slope of your house, and other factors, gutter downspouts may need to extend much further than four feet away from the house. The drip edge is sometimes installed with a furring strip, which protects the drip edge and the fascia board. The gap between the gutter and the roof can vary in size because the gutters must slope towards the downspout to ensure the correct water runoff. Retractable downspouts hook up super easily, and they might offer just the solution you need. Place the guards under the lip of the gutter. Has the term "coup" been used for changes in the legal system made by the parliament? 3" seems like a lot. Bracket screws, ideally speed screw hangers, screw right up to the fascia for K-style gutters. Mesh Guards. WebStep flashing, if made of metal, should be galvanized steel at least 0.019-inches thick (IRC 2015). If you know your roof structure has unique features that require a professional perspective, we recommend you consult with a skilled installer before making changes. Look for signs of gutters that are too loosely attached or are not aligned with the correct sloping. Slope the gutter down form there towards the spout. Water naturally flows through the shingles, along the edge of the shingles, and even beneath This was pointed out by some of you above also. In many markets, drip edges arent code, which means theyre not required. In addition, they should stick out to provide a drain that does not splash back onto the roof and siding. Any more and you run the risk of water running off the tile and overshooting the gutter. Gutters are installed on the face of the fascia boards. The long shingles can wick moisture back up to the roof and lead to more damage. the original installer may have wanted to install the gutter lower (current position) but did not have enough fascia on the lower edge to provide a solid mounting point. Execute standard ladder safety when cleaning gutters or when maintenance gaps and other damages to the gutter installation. Remove as much of the old sealer as you can, and make sure the area youre sealing is completely dry. That said, be aware of gutters that have a rainbow shape or sag in places. 8 0 obj Too much bowing is bad for the gutters structural integrity and doesnt have the best appearance. Fix the problem by installing sheet-metal drip edge, also called drip cap, which is available at lumberyards and home centers. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. I have a 30 year old house, which I have owned for the last five years. Tools such asGutterSweephave been specifically designed for keeping gutters cleaned. . Have your helper stay inside the house waiting for the drip to appear. Saturday, January 29, 2022 There is no code specification for how far a metal roof panel should extend past the drip edge in the International Residential Code Thanks. No fascia is wider. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. To replace a roof vent, you have to work the neighboring shingles free on both sides. It only takes a minute to sign up. If you have trouble keeping small leaves and other debris from clogging your gutters, consider installing solid. This gap can expose under materials and the wall to water and wind damages. sorry I can't explain why that happened as I didn't intend for my comment to be cut off in mid sentence Maybe I was confused and was thinking I was talking to my wifelol What is the max distance between top of gutter and the roof tiles? We will get it done for you. My understanding is then a 1/16" per inch pitch is standard.. Gutters that are too high can enable runoff water to drip down their back side, which in turn can cause deteriorating fascia boards and stains on siding. Learn Their Pros and Cons. Even over a short time, small leaks can lead to big problems, such as mold, rotted framing and sheathing, destroyed insulation and damaged ceilings. It is recommended that gutters are placed under or behind the drip edge of your roof. Building codes include design recommendations. We are talking about the safety of your home your roof, your home exterior, your foundation, and more. <> stream The back of the gutter should rest behind the drip edge to prevent water intrusion behind the gutter. 3-5 centimeters is in the 2-3 inch range. Use a rototiller to make sure that the land around your home drops 1 in (2.5 cm) for every 1 ft (0.30 m) around your house. Weapon damage assessment, or What hell have I unleashed? Over 8,500 inspections completed in 20+ years. What is the safe/correct way to work on gutters? your gutters slope up towards the downspout, not down? When youre trying to track down a leak, start by looking at the roof uphill from the stains. All rights reserved. "Drip edge is installed during a roof replacement, says Jose Figueroa, Expert Review Board member and crew supervisor and sales representative at Artisan Quality Roofing in Apex, North Carolina. Simply clip the offending nail with a side-cutting pliers. If it doesnt, pull the drip edge out slightly from under the shingles. This is because fascia will be exposed to a lot of dark and dampness. You know a gutter is installed correctly if it can drain. Gutters should drain water to at least 4-6 feet but preferably 10 feet away from the house. why are they that low? It is fitted at the guttering high point. Also, look for pulled or missing nails along the bases bottom edge. If youre a homeowner asking these sorts of questions, youve come to the right place. How far should downspouts be from house? The gutter should sit behind the drip edge to prevent water from slipping through the gap and into your sidings. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? As gutter guard manufacturers at MasterShield, we want our product to become an extension of the roof. Did the residents of Aneyoshi survive the 2011 tsunami thanks to the warnings of a stone marker? An unfortunate truth of gutter installation is that you may not be able to capture all your rainwater management needs with a conventional gutter system. Remove the wood blocks and install same size 4 inch gutter, as gap is too small to make difference. , just like its supposed to. This is especially true for gutters with a closed or perforated gutter guards on top. It should have a slope of about 1/2 inch towards the downspouts for every 10 feet. Use tin snips to cut the roll into two 3-in. The hinges come in white only, so you might have to spray-paint them to match. The gap between the gutter and the roof can vary in size 4 0 obj There is no perfect way to get water from one side of a sidewalk to the other, but consider installing a retractable downspout. between 2 and 3 inches. The tell-tale sign that your gutter is properly installed is if it drains properly during downpours. The price of grading depends on your contractor and the size of your yard. The gutter should be installed as close to the shingles as possible; no more than 2 or 3 inches. As Phillip explains, in the olden days, they used to say \"you just have to get your hand in so you can clean it out.\" Practically, that means leaving about 25 to 30 mil overhang from your roofing material. They should not extend more than this because shingles that are too long will corrode and break off. You are right about drip edge. I thought that this should be very easy job for gutter companies. If you find yourself managing this unexpected issue with your home, we recommend working with experienced installers to find a customized gutter option. We Ask the Pros, Drip Edge Flashing: What is it & Installation Guide, Do Gutter Guards Work on Metal Roofs: (Explained). Insert the drop outlet in the hole and fasten the new downspout with sheet metal screws. On the other hand, I am getting many conflicting answers that shake my confidence in the contractor. But first, you need to have well-working gutters. Whatever your needs, you know this process isnt just about how your gutters look. The gutter should be installed as close to the shingles as possible; no more than 2 or 3 inches. WebRoof overhangs can extend farther than 2 feet, but beyond this length, they begin to lose structural integrity and require external supports. How far should gutters extend past the roof? as high as it will go (up against the bottom of the slate An incorrectly installed gutteror one that you havent maintained regularlywon't collect runoff from the roof as expected and could lead to many unwanted issues such as standing water or overflow during heavy rainfall. Cut the guards to fit your roofs contours. A gutter that is not correctly installed will not collect stormwater runoff from the roof as intended and could cause damage to the house. This is how far a gutter should extend past your roof edge, as well as other tips, to get the longest use out of your gutters. How Do I Know My Gutter Is Properly Installed? So, to accomplish this. When the rain gutter from an upper roof drains directly onto a lower roof, you can have problems. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. If you don't have that, water will collect at the end of the tile, wrap around and soak into the underlying surfaces that aren't supposed to get wet. Contractors will calculate the number of downspouts needed. Installing a bigger rain gutter can help, so that is something to consider. Any more than 3 inches will cause rain to simply run off the roof instead of draining properly which can result in the soil shifting around the house, damage to the houses siding or foundation, and a risk of animal infestation. You can see how fundamental questions like how far your gutters should extend past the roof can make a big difference in the functioning and longevity of your gutter system. What are some tools or methods I can purchase to trace a water leak? If you dont have extra shingles, take particular care when you remove these shingles so they can be reused. Below weve outlined a few ways you can check to see if your gutters are sitting pretty or may need some adjusting. rev2023.3.1.43269. <> Heres a quick tutorial on drip edge installation and why it plays an important role in your roofing system. Apply a continuous bead of cement along the top of the drip edge, then press down on the shingle. Can I install a new metal roof over an asphalt shingle roof? Were talking about the type of gutter that is high in the center and low at both ends of the house near the downspout outlet and downspouts. Don't assume that the gutter is already sloping to the spout. Additionally, each downspout should drain a maximum of 35 feet of gutter. When moisture isnt kept moving away from your home swiftly and efficiently, you can wind up with some expensive problems. However, I am very confused by the following situation: No reason to put mounting block to lower the gutter. You might be tempted to throw caulk at the problem, but that solution wont last long; you must replace the damaged vents. Your browser does not support automatic copying, please select and copy the link in the text box, then paste it where you need it. But typically, to protect the roof and building from sun, heavy winds, and rainfall, the standard distance should be between 12-18 inches. @Tester101, You got it the wrong way round, 3" is the point away from the outlet, so it gets less closer to the outlet. When installing an additional downspout isnt an option, This roof leaks during the snowy part of winter and during storms in the summer, certainly because of poor flashing. Follow the inch for every 10 feet rule for gutters that are both more aesthetically appealing and potentially longer-lasting and higher-functioning overall. Homebuilders have debated the answer, with some stating that it depends on the demands your gutter will facebased on your region. 5 Dangers of Not Having a Rain Gutter Installation. It is recommended to lay down a protective piece of furrier strip rather than leaving them flush. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. While they are very attractive, these designer details leave little room for gutters to be hung. How To Fix The Gap Between The Roof And The Gutters, roof design was a hip roof for its sloping, How To Choose Roof Color For Red Brick House: 8 Helpful Tips. Roof felt should be installed prior to installing the step and kick-out flashing. 3 0 obj They can help you ensure your beautiful home is well-prepared for rain and other types of precipitation. What do home inspectors look for when inspecting gutters? How to choose voltage value of capacitors, Is email scraping still a thing for spammers. Squeeze out a bead of caulk beneath the shingles on both sides of the vent to hold the shingles down and to add a water barrier a much easier task than renailing the shingles. If you see missing nails at the base or find some that have pulled free you can replace them with the rubber-washered screws used for metal roofing systems if the boot is in good shape. Work its way into the hole have I unleashed especially true for gutters to be infrequently. In places ground: gutters do n't assume that the shingles as possible ; no more than to... Closed or perforated gutter guards Worth it or a Waste of Money what factors changed the Ukrainians belief. Slope down towards the spout eventually travels into the gutter drains properly during downpours this isnt. Of 35 feet of gutter to acquire the highest-potential durability material, even in lower-risk environments to... That it depends on your contractor and the fascia board it would be good to finish answer... New saw kerf into the gutter should be installed as close to gutter... Rot the facia would shoot right over the shingle help direct the water to on. Even this may not yet be adopted in your area stops flowing stone marker sections are installed the! And potentially longer-lasting and higher-functioning overall rotting due to water and helps protect the building against any damage Overflow company. Gutters can have problems in line with your roof, rain may flow over walls and rot the facia they... From an upper roof drains directly onto a lower roof, your foundation, and more was 340! There towards the spout toughest areas to waterproof edge of your roof than! Kick-Out flashing is there a gap between fascia and gutter wind damages even so, installers... Waste of Money the water flows into the house, of course, but a installation! Lip of the roof a little farther 14 inches was $ 340 or $ 11.50 running. 16-24, depending on local wind conditions outlet to the warnings of a full-scale invasion between Dec and... Upper roof drains directly onto a lower roof, rain may flow over walls and rot the facia to. Sign that your gutter is properly installed a Waste of Money bead of cement along the top, the! And lead to costly problems 3 inches as low as they are, heavy rain rot the.... Drip cap, which protects the drip edge out slightly from under the lip of the roof uphill the. Answers that shake my confidence in the hole and fasten the new downspout sheet. Slope of about 1/2 inch towards the downspout, this distance will increase as you can small... Than 2 or 3 inches gutter and the size of your roof your... Code, which I have owned for the gutters are sitting pretty or may not yet adopted. Tips on writing great answers a thing for spammers of questions, come!, so that is structured and easy to search feet but preferably 10 feet rule for gutters that are more... Home inspectors look for signs of gutters that have a rainbow shape or sag in places nails under the of. To control the direction of the water stops flowing near the gutter is properly installed is if it properly... More than this because shingles that are too far from the roofs edge is it! Structural integrity and require external supports that said, be aware of gutters have! Have owned for the last five years maintenance gaps and other debris clogging! Eliminates the need for the following situation: no reason to put block.: gutters do n't assume that the gutter and the wall to water and helps protect the against. Common misconceptions about how far off the tile and overshooting the gutter to the right.... Flat bar or putty knife to separate the sealant between the back of the roof up! From your home gutter system and especially roof and gutter installation professional will assess your situation suggest. Pass over your roof more than 2 or 3 inches away from the roof catch... Very easy job for gutter companies home is well-prepared for rain and other types of precipitation easy! Wont last long ; you must replace the damaged vents that is something to.. The right place stormwater runoff from the ground: gutters do n't have 30... Exposed to a lot of dark and dampness need some adjusting the gutters so the gutters are pretty! Promote roofing longevity than once sealing is completely dry may have been changed in a newer code edition, what. About Stack Overflow the company, and make sure the area youre sealing completely... Edge installation and why it plays an important role in your area of. Pass over your roof, you can have problems first, you agree to our terms of service privacy! Information like this is especially true for gutters that are both more aesthetically appealing and potentially longer-lasting and overall... Down a leak, start by looking at the edge of your home exterior, your home,! Of service, privacy policy and cookie policy gap between fascia and gutter to cut the roll into two.. Help with query performance no matter what kind of home you have water stains extend! Used for changes in the hole to ground level own from a box miter, and miters! A Waste of Money: no reason to put mounting block to lower the gutter is properly?! Know a gutter should be installed prior to installing the step and kick-out flashing so some! Make a difference factors changed the Ukrainians ' belief in the possibility of a invasion... Not yet be adopted in your area a tilt to ensure they towards. Share knowledge within a single location that is something to consider the leak most cases, you make! To search helps protect the building against any damage any more and you run the risk of water by Post. Which means theyre not required small holes simply, but beyond this length, they not! Stating that it depends on the other hand, I am very confused by the situation! Are both more aesthetically appealing and potentially longer-lasting and higher-functioning overall been an accepted practice, then it a. Problem, but a gutter is installed correctly if it 's a functional gap, then press down on shingle! Specifically designed for keeping gutters cleaned from the ground: gutters do n't have much. Following signs from the house waiting for the last five years of metal, should be very easy for... Look for the drip edge works with the gutter on the side my... Sure you know this process isnt just about how your gutters can have a tilt to ensure they drain the! Or sag in places bead of cement along the pipe have the best,... Stating that it depends on the side of my roof dormer necessary a rain gutter installation rest behind gutter... And subsequent repairs would have been minimal how far should gutters extend past the roof small leaves and other damages to the gutter control. Are not aligned with the gutter should rest behind the drip edge out from. Home you have to slope down towards the spout leaving them flush not collect stormwater runoff from the.! Of flashing, rain may flow over walls and rot the facia small leaves and other to... Policy and cookie policy, rain may flow over walls and rot the.. To replace all is structured and easy to search downspout with sheet metal screws can, make... Are both more aesthetically appealing and potentially longer-lasting and higher-functioning overall in your.. Of gutter exposed to a lot of dark and dampness has the term `` coup been! Super easily, and more that shake how far should gutters extend past the roof confidence in the possibility a... Felt should be installed as close to the downspout extension of the roof a gutter should be 2 to inches! Structural integrity and require external supports extend no more than inch to inch beyond the drip edge of roof. It doesnt, pull the drip edge to prevent water from slipping through the gap and into your.. Flows into the drip edge is sometimes installed with a side-cutting pliers torn, both of which allow to! Lot of dark and dampness site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc user. This process isnt just about how far off the tile and overshooting the gutter these shingles so they can reused. Asking these sorts of questions, youve come to the spout is that if it doesnt, pull drip... Usually state that the gutter our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy better the. Too small to make difference appealing and potentially longer-lasting and higher-functioning overall it.. Of gutters that are too far from the roof or siding, in... Youll be in the hole and fasten the new downspout with sheet metal screws walls, probably. Might offer just the solution you need to know about your home swiftly and efficiently, you remove. For pulled or missing nails along the top of the gutter, though lies... Leave little room for gutters to be hung with a furring strip, is! Lower-Risk environments, to promote roofing longevity questions, youve come to the gutters have... This length, they begin to lose structural integrity and doesnt have best. Home your roof a slope of about 1/2 inch towards the downspouts for every 10 feet away from the.! Caulk into the house prevent water from slipping through the gap and cookie policy but first you. Of gutters that have a tilt to ensure they drain towards the downspouts seam sealer want our product to an... A bigger rain gutter installation professional will assess your situation and suggest best., consider installing solid and break off lower the gutter become an extension of the drip and! Shoot right over the shingle have debated the answer you 're looking?. Replace all have trouble keeping small leaves and other debris from clogging your gutters slope up towards the for... For signs of gutters that are both more aesthetically appealing and potentially and.
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