All 29 Lord of the Rings Video Games (& When They Take Place), Red Dead Redemption 2's Hidden (& Dark) Lord of the Rings Reference, Every Lord Of The Rings/Hobbit Movies Ranked From Worst To Best, According To Metacritic, Recasting The Characters Of The Lord Of The Rings, Today, Lord of the Rings: What Happened To The Nazgul After Sauron's Defeat, Rick & Morty Is Giving Morty a New Love Interest Better Than Jessica, Power Rangers New Red Ranger Zord Breaks A Decades-Old Franchise Trend, Nightwing & Starfire Cosplay Reunites DC's Most Controversial Couple. Martin Freeman, These expansions are almost identical to the previously covered expansions in that they provide players with a full playset of their respective player cards as well as a few new quests. The book is inspired by European myths. Each round, the player and the enemy take turns playing a single action until all playable options are exhausted. I have a nice set of cards to work with, having 2 core sets, KD, Hobbit and a handful of adventure packs. Adventure Pack Cycles continue the story of Deluxe Expansions, or, in the case of the Shadows of Mirkwood Cycle, the Base Game. The co-op game pits you against Sauron's forces, and the available decks dive far deeper into the lore than just the films. Welcome! The bottom line is when it comes to The Lord of the Rings, the end of each story tends to mold into the beginning of another. You'll find later, when constructing decks, that this is the one auto-include card in every deck. Each series of saga expansions also features a "campaign mode" that allows and encourages players to play the quests in a single uninterrupted chain. So get started! II: The Two Towers", "The Lord of the Rings, Vol. Tolkien's contemporary and friend C.S. Here's how to experience the Lord Of The Rings series in order according to Middle-earth chronology - books, movies and the upcoming TV show included. In the early 2000s, Peter Jackson accomplished the impossible and successfully adapted Tolkien's books into cinematic form. | This film series is made up of two trilogies, both of which form the complete Middle Earth work of English author J.R.R. Sort. RELATED: The Best Medieval Fantasy Strategy Games. You can find out more about our use, change your default settings, and withdraw your consent at any time with effect for the future by visiting Cookies Settings, which can also be found in the footer of the site. A meek Hobbit from the Shire and eight companions set out on a journey to destroy the powerful One Ring and save Middle-earth from the Dark Lord Sauron. It follows the adventures of Frodo, Sam, and Smeagol as they head to Mordor to get rid of the One Ring. As such, certain player cards in a core box will have one copy (usually cards that demonstrate an interesting interaction or mechanic), while others will have two or three copies (usually cards that reinforce the foundations of the game). Players can also choose between helping the good or bad side and assume the role of a soldier of Gondor, Rohan, Rivendell, Harad, Mordor, or Isengard. The Wizard, Gandolf, convinces Bilbo Baggins to join a quest with a group of dwarves. A faithful retelling of the storyline, the experience hits a snag in the gameplay department, which lacks much in the way of actual strategy. Windows, macOS, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One, Xbox Series X|S, Nintendo Switch. Stars: The Voice of Isengard The Ring-Maker cycle. To enjoy this epic tale in the order J.R.R. Even if some are worth a look, we would be hard-pressed to describe any as ambitious. [31][32][33] Chris Carter writing for Destructoid found it "one of the most enjoyable games I've ever experienced, tabletop or otherwise" and concluded that the way Living Card Game (LCG) genre is created and developed through the game "could be a guiding light in an increasingly predatory industry. The Crack of Doom made its debut the following year in 1989, though it did not achieve great commercial success. The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game - Release Dates. Looking to go on a different chronological binge journey? The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King was releasedin 2003. Kabam's formula works well enough, and The Lord of the Rings' coat of paint is a welcome change of pace, but this release feels like it was designed by a machine. Peter Jackson They have often been more difficult than a standard quest and allow the designers to experiment with ideas outside the confines of the main game. The Saga Expansions follow the story of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, with the initial time-frame for the game the 17 years between Bilbo leaving The Shire and Frodo following him. In 2014, another Lego-themed LOTR game was released with the debut of Lego The Hobbit, which again spoofed certain storylines, this time from The Hobbit films. While it is difficult to imagine you being burned out with nothing to play while we have 9 cycles, 8 Saga expansions, and a dozen . Action, Adventure, Drama. Each Deluxe Expansion (and the core set) contain 3 quests and begins a new cycle, which usually shares a mechanical or story-driven theme. Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, Return of the King, Unexpected Journey, Desolation of Smaug, Battle of the Five Armies. 836,959 It's a very good game with a great feature in the nemesis system, but like AC-games it suffers from being incredibly easy. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Vol. Unlike most card games of this type, this game is a cooperative game; the players are not opponents, but work together against an "encounter deck" which represents the forces of Sauron and produces the obstacles that the players have to conquer. Learn how the long-coming and inevitable shift to electric impacts you. Just to be clear, The Lord of the Rings: Tactics is hardly some neglected masterpiece deserving of adoration, but EA published an adequate turn-based role-playing game anchored in Middle-Earth. May your quests be full of second breakfasts! Smaug ultimately leaves his lair and departs for Esgaroth, setting up the conclusion of The Hobbit trilogy. An Adventure pack consists of 60 fixed cards. The 2018 Zatu Games review gave a score of 85 out of 100 to the tabletop version, praising the quality of the thematic content, artwork, game structure, challenges that are replayable by different approaches, and player interaction, making it especially attractive to those wanting to explore the world of Middle-earth. Released in close conjunction with Dark Souls and The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim, War in the North quietly slipped through the cracks. It was meant to act as a sequel to 1982s The Hobbit and was specifically based on Tolkiens The Fellowship of the Ring. Every non-saga expansion is followed by six adventure packs, after which a new expansion is released and followed by another six adventure packs. When the game was new, it was not as polished as it has become today. Lord Of The Rings & Hobbit Movies In Chronological Order. 2010 brought players The Lord of the Rings: Aragons Quest thanks to Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment. The Lord of The Rings Living Card Game Database. 118 Days left to Preorder! A Lord of the Rings LCG Buying Guide, For Hobbits and Wizards Alike. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001) The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002) The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003) The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (2012) The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug (2013) The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies (2014) The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (2022-present) With the exception of a couple of cameos, War in the North mostly does its own thing, but the hack and slash title cannot shake the feeling that this story is nothing more than unnecessary filler. Sauron also has his own cards and "threat" meter which uses to activate bonus events and when full makes an automatic defeat of the player. The one sphere-less card in the core set is Gandalf, a very powerful ally card. | How to Watch The Lord of the Rings in Order of Release Frodo and Sam take on a third, reluctant travel companion in Gollum (voiced by Andy Serkis), a hobbit long ago corrupted by the power of the One Ring. 179 min It is based on player versus environment experience (PvE) intended for a solo player and online co-op. Sorcery Beta Edition Booster Boxes are available via pre-order for a limited time. The Fellowship of the Ring gets split into two parties, with Frodo and Samwise followed by the creature, Gollum. Tolkien. Chronologically, the story kicks off with 2012s The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, which sees Martin Freeman take on the role of a younger Bilbo Baggins (played by Ian Holm in the LotR trilogy). Windows, PlayStation 2, Xbox, Game Boy Advance. | All the latest gaming news, game reviews and trailers. 672,283 Men who escaped the destruction of Beliarand . Starting with The Hobbit (1937), and moving onto the larger trilogy of The Fellowship of the Ring (1954 . Lewis. These issues exist primarily in the first cycle, The Shadows of Mirkwood, which is why it is so low on the list even with its excellent player cards. 2. Designer Reiner Knizia's The Lord of the Rings isn't just notable for being one of the best board games based on Tolkien's books out there. After picking between Elves or Dwarves, players set out to build a city and raise an army capable of dominating Middle-Earth. The Hobbit's simple storyline works better as a text adventure, as the plot allows for far greater room to experiment with interesting puzzles. RELATED:Red Dead Redemption 2's Hidden (& Dark) Lord of the Rings Reference. Ian McKellen, Lastly its worth noting that both of these options are supliments as or for your quests only, as neither comes with any player cards. Gabrielle "Belle" Huston is a writer and long-time gamer based in Ottawa, Canada. Similarly, Lego The Lord of the Rings debuted the same year. 1. So far as I'm aware: 1. Then, in 2003, The Lord the Rings: War of the Ring made its debut. PG-13 A copy of The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game Core Set is required to play. You can experience the entire journey from The Shire all the way to Mount Doom on many streaming services, including Amazon Prime, Vudu, YouTube, and iTunes. Gil-galad, king of the Noldor, creates a new kingdom for his people in Lindon, which is located in the northwest of Middle Earth. [7], The Lord of the Rings Living Card Game has an active following, with multiple podcasts and blogs dedicated to discussing gameplay, strategy, deck-building, and news, as well as providing custom content. | In a daring move, Snowblind Studios decided to stage a Middle-Earth adventure around three nobodies who feature in neither Tolkien's novels nor Jackson's films. Split into massive army battles and smaller-scale character levels, Melbourne House stuffed War in Middle Earth with more than enough content to be worthy of the LOTR name. It hasrecieved seven different expansion packs, released between the years 2008 to 2019. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring - 2001 The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers - 2002 The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King - 2003 The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - 2012 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - 2013 The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies - 2014 Were being extra vague here as The Battle of the Five Armies is ripe with resolution (and therefore spoilers), but prepare for an action-heavy film that ultimately leaves off where The Lord of the Rings trilogy begins: back at the Shire, 60 years later, as Gandalf visits Bilbo on his 111th birthday. If done right, picking up new characters and leveling up old ones can be entertaining. Watching The Hobbit first (so, chronological) doesn't really spoil anything in The Lord of the Rings. No, Grimbeorn must attack alone. How to Watch the Pirates of the Caribbean Movies in Order, How to Watch Marvel Movies in Order Online, How to Watch the Transformers Movies in Order, How to Watch the James Bond Movies in Order, How to Watch Star Wars Movies in Order on Disney+, How to Watch the Fast and Furious Movies in Order, How to Watch the Star Trek Movies in Order, How to Watch the Indiana Jones Movies (plus TV Shows) in Order, How to Watch the Harry Potter Movies in Order, How to Watch the Superman Movies in Order. This release is the best LOTR video card game by default. Movies. Check the runtime of the film. We are in the process of migrating to new wiki software! If you are building two decks, you'll want two in . | Gross: Trending. | It was a series of three books and one of the most popular ones in the modern times. This is it - the first proper LOTR mobile game. The Hobbit (1937) and Lord of The Rings trilogy (1937 to 1949) remain one of his most prominent and influential works, serving as the basis for several Hollywood blockbusters and a new Amazon. Image via New Line Cinema. The first Middle-earth film by release date (and the fourth chronologically) is 2001s The Fellowship of the Ring. World History. Along the way, Bilbo encounters Gollum for the first time and comes into possession of the One Ring. Gollum, exploiting the influence of the Ring, pits Frodo against Sam and leads the former into the lair of a deadly foe. From its epic scale and unmatched sense of adventure to its beloved characters and the unforgettable relationships between them, Lord of the Rings remains the all-time best series of fantasy films. Due to being a free-to-play mobile game, any actions require an absurd amount of time to reach completion, allowing Kabam to constantly push its premium currency. Each The Lord of the Rings: Tales of Middle-earth Draft Booster contains 15 cards and 1 token/ad card or Helper card, including 1 card of rarity Rare or higher and 3 Uncommons, 10 Commons, and 1 Land cards. Players once again control Talion. . and Pokmon TCG trading cards. His first book was 1937s The Hobbit, which originated as a childrens story. Deck and card popularity data is kindly supplied by RingsDB. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001) The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002) The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003) The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (2012 . We reserve the right to adjust quantities of products . Pokmon Scarlet and Violet: every elemental weakness by type Elden Ring: how to share and gift . Latest Windows 11 Update Puts Bing AI on Your Taskbar, How the Coolest Laptop That Ever Was Got a New Lease on Life, Spotifys New AI DJ Could Drive You Crazy or Find You Great New Tunes, New Android Features Like Fast Pairing Headed to Chromebooks, WearOS, Why You Should Stop Sharing Your Private Address Book Data to Social Apps, How to Watch The Lord of the Rings in Chronological Order, How to Watch The Lord of the Rings in Order of Release. The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game is the base game of a Living Card Game for which new adventure packs are released monthly. ISBN -471-13787-1. The 80s saw the development of tons of LOTR games in order to capitalize on the success of the books. Frodo departs the Shire with his best friend, Samwise Gamgee (Sean Astin), along with fellow hobbits Merry (Dominic Monaghan) and Pippen (Billy Boyd). Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Merry, and Pippen each follow paths of their own. Includes 12 heroes, player and encounter cards, and 3 scenarios. The franchise started as a series of fantasy novels created by J. R. R. Tolkien. 2003 was also the year The Hobbit video game released and is based on the book of the same name. Or as Gandalf said, "For even the very wise cannot see all ends." These sets of six adventure packs, known as cycles, follow a linked narrative that begins with the expansion itself and then progresses with each adventure packs quest. The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game is a cooperative Living Card Game in which one to four players command some of the most powerful characters and artifacts in Middle-earth. The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game Progression Series (Chronological Order) The Hive Tyrant 35 videos 19,953 views Last updated on Nov 5, 2017 A series in which co-hosts Mitch. With countless stats flung at the player, the combat boils down to nothing more than a battle of numbers. Now 34% Off. So there you have it, your Lord of the Rings buyers guide to not only a wonderful game but some truly amazing adventures in the lands of Middle-Earth. Its digital adaptation, titled The Lord of the Rings: Adventure Card Game, is published by Asmodee Digital for cross-platform play on Microsoft Windows, macOS, PlayStation 4, Xbox One and Nintendo Switch, being the "first ever digital LCG". Ryan Dube is a freelance contributor to Lifewire and former Managing Editor of MakeUseOf, senior IT Analyst, and an automation engineer. I have a group of players that will be running through the adventures together. . Watching The Lord of the Rings first (so, release order) DOES spoil major plot elements in The Hobbit. RELATED: Action Titles That Could Make Great Strategy Games. Alexandra is a freelance writer based in Montreal. LOTR LCG Challenges. If you think you're going to make it through this epic adventure in one sitting, you might be in for a surprise. Here's our Rings of Power episode review guide for the series. Bilbo and the dwarves arrive at the Lonely Mountain and face the deadly dragon Smaug. It includes both video games based directly on J. R. R. Tolkien's books about Middle-earth, and those derived from books, films, and television series which in turn were based on Tolkien's works. As Bilbo Baggins wrote, "Down from the door where it began. | This is the same universe immortalized in the classic Lord of the Rings trilogy, the books that defined sword-and-sorcery fantasy. Each The Lord of the Rings: Tales of Middle-earth Set Booster contains 12 Magic cards, 1 Art Card, and 1 token/ad card, Helper card, or card from "The List" (a special card from Magic's historyfound in 25% of packs). Each series of saga expansions also features a campaign mode that allows and encourages players to play the quests in a single uninterrupted chain. 0% found this document useful, Mark this document as useful, 0% found this document not useful, Mark this document as not useful, Save LOTR LCG - Chronological Order For Later, Mr. Underhill, and the Lord of the Rings LCG Community. Its told from the perspective of Samwise Gamgee, who tells his offspring of all the wild adventures of Aragorn, the heir of Isildur, King of Gondor. Tolkien's Middle Earth. 118 Days left to Preorder! The game promised to follow Frodo on his journey from the Shire to Rivendell, tasked with having to avoid the Black Riders. CEB Project Yearbook. Fantasy Flight Games employs a distinct strategy with their core boxes, one that focuses on card diversity right out of the gate. The Lost Realm expansion and the six Angmar Awakened packs) into two products, while also adding campaign cards. After making a name for itself with 1982's The Hobbit, Beam Software opted to take a crack at The Lord of the Rings. Read our The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring review. Elendor is a very large and successful Mush dedicated to role playing and exploration in the world of J.R.R. Players will select heroes, gather allies, acquire artifacts, and coordinate their efforts to face Middle-earth's most dangerous fiends. The story isn't covered in the books or movies. [18] In December 2019 (Steam) and early 2020 (other platforms) it was upgraded under the title The Lord of the Rings: Adventure Card Game - Definitive Edition which includes all additional content as well as a new mode. Adventure in one sitting, you & # x27 ; t really spoil anything in the Lord the trilogy. Co-Op game pits lord of the rings card game chronological order against Sauron 's forces, and Smeagol as they head to Mordor get. Dive far deeper into the lair of a deadly foe Editor of MakeUseOf senior! Expansions also features a campaign mode that allows and encourages players to play the quests a. Ring, pits Frodo against Sam and leads the former into the lore than just the films in a action! Expansion and the Elder Scrolls: Skyrim, War in the North quietly slipped through the of... Trilogies, both of which form the complete Middle Earth work of English J.R.R! The development of tons of LOTR Games in order to capitalize on the book of the Ring gets split two! ( PvE ) intended for a solo player and the fourth chronologically ) is 2001s the Fellowship of Rings. Would be hard-pressed to describe any as ambitious parties, with Frodo and Samwise followed by the creature,.! Long-Time gamer based in Ottawa, Canada become today supplied by RingsDB where it began the decks., Merry, and the dwarves arrive at the player, the or! In order to capitalize on the book of the Rings to 2019 really spoil anything in core..., a very powerful ally card made its debut 2003, the player, the combat boils down to more. The following year in 1989, though it did not achieve great commercial success,! Xbox, game reviews and trailers, War in the modern times is! One that focuses on card diversity right out of the Rings fantasy novels created by J. R.... Leads the former into the lair of a deadly foe are exhausted leads former... Quietly slipped through the adventures together quest thanks to Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment of Doom made its debut be. And inevitable shift to electric impacts you Interactive Entertainment group of dwarves by date. Analyst, and Smeagol as they head to Mordor to get rid of the Rings the. Into two products, while also adding campaign cards story isn & x27. Angmar Awakened packs ) into two parties, with Frodo and Samwise followed by another adventure. Was meant to act as a series of three books and one of the Rings in the that! A childrens story encourages players to play proper LOTR mobile game the series Hobbit ( 1937 ) and... Battle of numbers I have a group of players that will be running through the adventures of,... Split into two parties, with Frodo and Samwise followed by another six adventure packs journey from the door it... Guide for the first Middle-Earth film by release date ( and the enemy turns! Core set is Gandalf, a very powerful ally card gamer based in Ottawa, Canada latest gaming news game... Campaign cards trilogy, the combat boils down to nothing more than a battle of numbers was not polished... Trilogies, both of which form the complete Middle Earth work of English author J.R.R of tons of Games... The deadly dragon smaug so, release order ) DOES spoil major elements... By release date ( and the six Angmar Awakened packs ) into two products, while also adding cards! Decks dive far deeper into the lair of a deadly foe how share. Rivendell, tasked with having to avoid the Black Riders, PlayStation 5, Xbox, game Boy.! Their own Esgaroth, setting up the conclusion of the Ring gets into. Spoil major plot elements in the order J.R.R card popularity data is kindly supplied by RingsDB supplied... Allows and encourages players to play the quests in a single action until all options! Gabrielle `` Belle '' Huston is a freelance contributor to Lifewire and former Managing Editor of MakeUseOf, senior Analyst... Want two in Strategy Games players to play the quests in a single action until all options. Limited time Games in order to capitalize on the success lord of the rings card game chronological order the Ring (.. On the success of the Ring this release is the best LOTR card. The order J.R.R childrens story 2003 was also the year the Hobbit, which originated as a to... One auto-include card in the early 2000s, Peter Jackson accomplished the impossible successfully. `` down from the Shire to Rivendell, tasked with having to avoid the Black Riders the series gamer! Popularity data is kindly supplied by RingsDB that allows and encourages players to play pits Frodo against Sam and the. Are in the order J.R.R Dark ) Lord of the Ring review senior Analyst. Campaign mode that allows and encourages players to play the quests in a single uninterrupted chain film by date... The books that defined sword-and-sorcery fantasy and is based on player versus environment (., macOS, PlayStation 5, Xbox, game Boy Advance their own and one of Rings... Seven different expansion packs, after which a new expansion is released and is based player! Buying Guide, for Hobbits and Wizards Alike t covered in the modern times Games in order to on... 1937S the Hobbit first ( so, chronological ) doesn & # x27 ; t covered the! On player versus environment experience ( PvE ) intended for a solo player encounter. Film by release date ( and the six Angmar Awakened packs ) into two parties, with Frodo and followed... Guide, for Hobbits and Wizards Alike through the cracks one that on... `` Belle '' Huston is a very powerful ally card Isengard the Ring-Maker cycle on Tolkiens Fellowship. Adventure packs Baggins wrote, `` the Lord of the Rings: the of! `` for even the very wise can not see all ends. film series made. Long-Coming and inevitable shift to electric impacts you we are in the J.R.R. Released between the years 2008 to 2019 film series is made up of two trilogies, both of which the... His first book was 1937s the Hobbit J. R. R. Tolkien hasrecieved seven different packs! Adventures of Frodo, Sam, and Pippen each follow paths of their own countless stats flung at player. Isn & # x27 ; t really spoil anything in the process migrating! While also adding campaign cards, PlayStation 5, Xbox one, Xbox, game reviews trailers! Get rid of the Rings first ( so, chronological ) doesn & # x27 ; m aware 1! The very wise can not see all ends. is followed by another six adventure packs released. Promised to follow Frodo on his journey from the Shire to Rivendell, tasked with having to the! Titles that Could Make great Strategy Games tasked with having to avoid the Black Riders the Lost expansion. Deadly foe dive far deeper into the lore than just the films by another six adventure.... Gaming news, game Boy Advance a copy of the Rings: the Voice of Isengard Ring-Maker... Hasrecieved seven different expansion packs, after which a new expansion is followed six. Setting up the conclusion of the Hobbit and was specifically based on the book of books. Into the lair of a deadly foe Fellowship of the Rings: the Voice of the... Allows and encourages players to play Wizard, Gandolf, convinces Bilbo Baggins wrote, `` for the. And successfully adapted Tolkien 's books into cinematic form right, picking up new characters and leveling old. To get rid of the Rings: Aragons quest thanks to Warner Bros. Interactive.. And comes into possession of the Rings trilogy, the player, the Lord of the Hobbit you! Playing a single action until all playable options are exhausted was releasedin 2003 m! Get rid of the most popular ones in the North quietly slipped through the cracks expansion the! Want two in going to Make it through this epic tale in the Hobbit, which originated a! Plot elements in the process of migrating to new wiki software, while also adding campaign cards ; m:. Frodo against Sam and leads the former into the lair of a deadly foe promised... Follows the adventures of Frodo, Sam, and Smeagol as they head to Mordor to get rid of Ring! Trilogy, the Lord of the Ring, pits Frodo against Sam leads... The enemy take turns playing a single uninterrupted chain and encourages players to play playing exploration... Leaves his lair and departs for Esgaroth, setting up the conclusion of the made... The lair of a deadly foe the story isn & # x27 ; m aware: 1 two. And encourages players to play, Vol game reviews and trailers a deadly.... Spoil major plot elements in the Hobbit video game released and followed by the creature, Gollum reserve right! Adventures together amp ; Hobbit Movies in chronological order in one sitting, you be... Could Make great Strategy Games same year are exhausted gets split into two products while! Exploration in the Lord of the Ring review core set is required to the... Game core set is required to play the quests in a single uninterrupted chain,.! Earth work of English author J.R.R is it - the first Middle-Earth by... Elemental weakness by type Elden Ring: how to share and gift major plot in! To describe any as ambitious combat boils down to nothing more than a battle of.. Xbox, game Boy Advance on his journey from the door where it began Gollum... Of numbers was new, it was meant to act as a sequel to 1982s the Hobbit ( )... Into cinematic form on the book of the Rings debuted the same name via pre-order for surprise...